Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby PeruvianSpice » 01 Jul 2017, 18:12

That's moronic!!!

I really think it's idiotic how they count a single charting nowadays
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby King » 01 Jul 2017, 22:29

They should bring back physical singles, but not CD ones but Bluray singles. Obviously it's pretty stupid to listen to one song only, they should have a 5-track rule. The single, B-side, 2 remixes and an instrumental or a 3rd remix. And when you put it in a Bluray player it features the video in HD quality plus a documentary of making the video. People would buy that definately. And only count digital sales of the real single towards the singles chart, no album tracks or streaming or YT views or whatever the fuck they count these days.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby tommie » 01 Jul 2017, 23:25

King wrote:They should bring back physical singles, but not CD ones but Bluray singles. Obviously it's pretty stupid to listen to one song only, they should have a 5-track rule. The single, B-side, 2 remixes and an instrumental or a 3rd remix. And when you put it in a Bluray player it features the video in HD quality plus a documentary of making the video. People would buy that definately. And only count digital sales of the real single towards the singles chart, no album tracks or streaming or YT views or whatever the fuck they count these days.


Realistically, digital and streaming has just made it all too comfortable where you don't have to get out of your seat and your butt to the store, or waiting for the post service to deliver them. Physical singles will never be a thing again - it might get a minor revival like vinyl has in the recent years but that's about it. It'll only ever amount to a few 1000 sales at best now.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Hannes84 » 02 Jul 2017, 23:49

It didn't chart simply because it was not a good song. Nobody should be surprised, really. I listened to it three times and that was a pain. No offense to her, nor her fans but it's just boring.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby PeruvianSpice » 03 Jul 2017, 00:45

It wouldn't matter if it's a great uptempo songs...

SG as solo artists are dead... sadly

Still, I appreciate this songs they bring
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby WhatTheHell » 03 Jul 2017, 03:54

Hannes84 wrote:It didn't chart simply because it was not a good song. Nobody should be surprised, really. I listened to it three times and that was a pain. No offense to her, nor her fans but it's just boring.


I'm not going to say that Angels In Chins is her best effort, but following your statement, Anymore was also a bad song...
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Poosh » 03 Jul 2017, 14:48

King wrote:They should bring back physical singles, but not CD ones but Bluray singles. Obviously it's pretty stupid to listen to one song only, they should have a 5-track rule. The single, B-side, 2 remixes and an instrumental or a 3rd remix. And when you put it in a Bluray player it features the video in HD quality plus a documentary of making the video. People would buy that definately. And only count digital sales of the real single towards the singles chart, no album tracks or streaming or YT views or whatever the fuck they count these days.


No one would buy that. :laugh:
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Peter » 03 Jul 2017, 15:08

Poosh wrote:
King wrote:They should bring back physical singles, but not CD ones but Bluray singles. Obviously it's pretty stupid to listen to one song only, they should have a 5-track rule. The single, B-side, 2 remixes and an instrumental or a 3rd remix. And when you put it in a Bluray player it features the video in HD quality plus a documentary of making the video. People would buy that definately. And only count digital sales of the real single towards the singles chart, no album tracks or streaming or YT views or whatever the fuck they count these days.


No one would buy that. :laugh:


Totally. Only die hard fans would be buying those.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Fulvio84 » 03 Jul 2017, 16:53

music business is very weird nowdays.
new generations don't need to own music, they just listen to it, is just people of our age and nerdy fans who laike to collect stuff that buy CDS and similars ... I deeply hate to dont own a CD for angels in chains, hold on, half of me or for once in my life, but we really are little ammount of people. Even big stars as Gaga is not doing many physical releases anymore so... we need to deal with that.
Anyway I believe that after Angels in chains if she release another good single with strong promotion and then an album, it could go ok.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Hannes84 » 03 Jul 2017, 23:06

WhatTheHell wrote:
Hannes84 wrote:It didn't chart simply because it was not a good song. Nobody should be surprised, really. I listened to it three times and that was a pain. No offense to her, nor her fans but it's just boring.


I'm not going to say that Angels In Chins is her best effort, but following your statement, Anymore was also a bad song...

A bad song? How the heck is it a bad song? It's not the best I've heard, it needs more kick to it. But it is very current sounding, and Melanie C *always* sounds amazing. I give it a 6/10. Mainly cause it doesn't have enough of...something... to get me excited enough. But it has a good beat, amazing intro and a really clever ending "yeaaaaaaaaa-ah!". Chorus is catchy, production is top notch. Just missing something.

I just love how everyone's rejoicing every time Melanie C doesn't get the high charting she used to, but when Geri flops ten times harder everyone's like "oh it's the music biz", "it's because of streaming", "not enough promo", "bad pr-team"... yeah, whatever... :laugh: The next single will be more up-beat and it'll do better. I'm liking the preview so far.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Jay » 03 Jul 2017, 23:19

Geri hasn't flopped 10 times harder than Melanie.

And WhatTheHell said that, because your implication is that a song that is not good = the sole reason it failed to chart. So therefore anything Melanie releases is bad on the grounds that it failed to chart. That's not the case with Melanie or Geri, the reason is because it's a completely differ music era and neither have adapted particularly well to to downloads and especially not streaming. Both could release incredible songs and still miss the charts because they don't get the exposure on Spotify.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Hannes84 » 03 Jul 2017, 23:31

Jay wrote:Geri hasn't flopped 10 times harder than Melanie.

And WhatTheHell said that, because your implication is that a song that is not good = the sole reason it failed to chart. So therefore anything Melanie releases is bad on the grounds that it failed to chart. That's not the case with Melanie or Geri, the reason is because it's a completely differ music era and neither have adapted particularly well to to downloads and especially not streaming. Both could release incredible songs and still miss the charts because they don't get the exposure on Spotify.

That is the sole reason tho. You can promo the hell outta that song and it still wouldn't go anywhere. Each of these girls get exposure whenever they want to get it. The problem is the music, not how they're not in the press. Cause Geri's new single was headlines over here, too, when it got announced. Yet she is nowhere to be seen on the charts. She got global press and the song title in news everywhere in the world (fine it wasn't front page stuff, but still). There are of course other factors than just the music, but that plays the main role in determining whether it'll do well or not. If people like a song, they'll stream it more than once. They'll add it to their playlists and so on.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Jay » 03 Jul 2017, 23:38

Promo isn't an effective way of selling singles any more - a prominent position on an official Spotify playlist is what makes a song into a hit these days. TV & radio promo is proven to be more beneficial for albums these days.

People are sheep at the end of the day - if a song is high up on Hot Hits UK playlist (which happens because a label pays Spotify for that), it'll unquestionably become a hit - no matter what the perceived quality of it is. To that end, either Melanie or Geri could release the best songs of their careers in 2017, and promote it on any UK TV show that has them - and still not reach the Top 200. They could release crap songs and do about as well. That's just the way it is!
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Hannes84 » 03 Jul 2017, 23:47

Jay wrote:Promo isn't an effective way of selling singles any more - a prominent position on an official Spotify playlist is what makes a song into a hit these days. TV & radio promo is proven to be more beneficial for albums these days.

People are sheep at the end of the day - if a song is high up on Hot Hits UK playlist (which happens because a label pays Spotify for that), it'll unquestionably become a hit - no matter what the perceived quality of it is. To that end, either Melanie or Geri could release the best songs of their careers in 2017, and promote it on any UK TV show that has them - and still not reach the Top 200. They could release crap songs and do about as well. That's just the way it is!

I have to disagree. Spotify playlists do not make a difference. TV & Radio promo.. Isn't MelC talking about her "new" album like every week on radio? Where's the success? To be honest, I don't think any of us (including the professionals, who do it for living) have any clue anymore about how to promote a single. You can have a 300 million people audience for your music and still go nowhere. Yet you have a name that carries, and you'll shoot up right away. However, not even than works these days (Gaga, Madonna and so on). I don't really listen to radio these days, nor do I follow the charts. I've got my playlists and I listen to the tracks I've always loved. I occasionally add music, when Spotify suggests something I like, or when my fav artists release new stuff.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby WhatTheHell » 04 Jul 2017, 01:27

Hannes84 wrote:
Jay wrote:Promo isn't an effective way of selling singles any more - a prominent position on an official Spotify playlist is what makes a song into a hit these days. TV & radio promo is proven to be more beneficial for albums these days.

People are sheep at the end of the day - if a song is high up on Hot Hits UK playlist (which happens because a label pays Spotify for that), it'll unquestionably become a hit - no matter what the perceived quality of it is. To that end, either Melanie or Geri could release the best songs of their careers in 2017, and promote it on any UK TV show that has them - and still not reach the Top 200. They could release crap songs and do about as well. That's just the way it is!

I have to disagree. Spotify playlists do not make a difference. TV & Radio promo.. Isn't MelC talking about her "new" album like every week on radio? Where's the success? To be honest, I don't think any of us (including the professionals, who do it for living) have any clue anymore about how to promote a single. You can have a 300 million people audience for your music and still go nowhere. Yet you have a name that carries, and you'll shoot up right away. However, not even than works these days (Gaga, Madonna and so on). I don't really listen to radio these days, nor do I follow the charts. I've got my playlists and I listen to the tracks I've always loved. I occasionally add music, when Spotify suggests something I like, or when my fav artists release new stuff.


Man, your last message contradicts yourself.
You say spotify does not make a difference but TV and Radio does... Then why Anymore hasn't charted at all after all the interviews Mel had? It was her most radio-played song of the last 10 years or so (bar Loving You)!
Nowadays it is clear that No spotify-Youtube plays means no chart.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Jay » 04 Jul 2017, 03:00

Spotify playlists really help to shape the charts now more so than ever before, I'd say that is clear to see:


https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify/p ... BWIGoYBM5M Today's Top Hits - 16,235,766 followers
https://open.spotify.com/user/spotifych ... nolsZ8PSNw United Kingdom Top 50 - 1,257,319 followers
https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify_u ... 7v81uS7mxZ Hots Hits UK - 1,580,157 followers

http://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/ / Most recent UK chart
http://www.officialcharts.com/charts/si ... rt-update/ Most recent UK midweeks

It's mostly all the same songs, and that's because they have the greatest exposure on the most popular playlists. That's why labels are keen to pay to get their hits on these playlists, because these playlists equate to creating a hit single.


It's become the case that the positioning of songs on these platforms is actually a lot more beneficial in creating hits than booking a TV show nowadays, that's certainly the case here in the UK.

TV & radio slots helps to raise awareness of albums more. Look at Melanie C - she plugged hard during the releases of Anymore & Version of Me, arguably more so than she did for This Time & The Sea. The result of this promo: Anymore missed the Top 200 - the first time she's ever missed the UK charts with the lead single from an album. The reason is not down to its perceived quality, it's because she didn't have it on popular Spotify playlists. However, the album charted at #25 - which was a much higher result than she's been accustomed to in many years. Her promo translated into decent album sales (for her, in the context of being an indie artist & 20 years into her career).

Honestly, "Spotify exposure on popular playlists + Geri stays in her kitchen all week baking cakes" would have been a more effective strategy to achieve a chart position than "No Spotify exposure + Geri goes on numerous TV shows to plug the single". :p (Obviously Spotify + promo would have been the best scenario).


Tbh we're all entitled to think what we want about the song, but "it didn't chart because it's not a good song" is not a valid reason in this day and age. We are simply not going to see Melanie C or Geri ever enter the charts again if their only promotion is TV & radio, regardless of whether we think the songs are good or bad. I'll hammer this point across one more time - they'd need Spotify exposure to have a fighting chance of charting. They're most likely never going to do well on Spotify though... so the days of expecting them to chart in the singles chart are sadly a thing of the past.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Sam Rogers-Bennett » 04 Jul 2017, 03:40

As much as I have an opinion on charts and why things work and don't, I seriously wouldn't even get into an argument about it with Jay, I don't know anyone who gets the charts like he does... not only that but explains it in a way we all understand. There is no point just writing him off for the sake of it.

I think the charts are a complete mess. It's a joke. I hope one day it'll go back to how it was. I think no matter what by next year Geri, Emma, Mel B and Victoria will be retired from music apart from the odd performance or one off duet ect. I think we probably have 1 or 2 album's from Melanie C before she gives up. Then it'll be a long long time before we get any music from any of the girls. They gain NOTHING from releasing music.
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Jay » 04 Jul 2017, 05:31

Samuel-Bennett wrote:As much as I have an opinion on charts and why things work and don't, I seriously wouldn't even get into an argument about it with Jay, I don't know anyone who gets the charts like he does... not only that but explains it in a way we all understand. There is no point just writing him off for the sake of it.

I think the charts are a complete mess. It's a joke. I hope one day it'll go back to how it was. I think no matter what by next year Geri, Emma, Mel B and Victoria will be retired from music apart from the odd performance or one off duet ect. I think we probably have 1 or 2 album's from Melanie C before she gives up. Then it'll be a long long time before we get any music from any of the girls. They gain NOTHING from releasing music.


:D :lovers: Thanks Sam! I'm quite passionate about the charts (some of you may have guessed... :p ) and I like to share my thoughts about it, but I really like discussing it with others too so I welcome other viewpoints. Although in this instance I would say that the extreme dominance of Spotify & the impact of its playlists is a sad reality.

I certainly agree with you that the charts are a big mess nowadays. :( I think the main problem with it is that it's attempting to combine two completely different forms of music consumption, and it makes for a chart that isn't quantifiable. Committing to buying a song and giving it that one off sale, to me that is so different to streaming it repeatedly. Back in the day of just sales, it felt more meaningful that the #1 literally meant it had sold the most.

I still have an interest in the charts but they're definitely less enjoyable to follow nowadays, because they're so slow-moving and less varied, and a smaller pool of artists dominate. I do miss when my favourite artists would build up a string of Top 10 / Top 20 singles! That doesn't really happen any more. In fact it's more the case that it seems amazing if they enter the charts at all, for instance Kylie, Britney, Madonna who've not been able to adapt to the streaming era, and of course the solo Spice Girls (who in fairness didn't really ever adapt to the download era, let alone streaming lol).

It's just a pity, because I think Geri making it to #21 on iTunes & managing #65 in the sales chart, with just 4 days on sale, is quite a nice achievement in itself. It's just a shame that the official chart is so swayed towards streaming that it didn't even make it into the official Top 200. Meh!
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Re: Chart Updates Topic - iTunes, Spotify etc.

Postby Hannes84 » 06 Jul 2017, 22:31

Samuel-Bennett wrote:As much as I have an opinion on charts and why things work and don't, I seriously wouldn't even get into an argument about it with Jay, I don't know anyone who gets the charts like he does... not only that but explains it in a way we all understand. There is no point just writing him off for the sake of it.

I think the charts are a complete mess. It's a joke. I hope one day it'll go back to how it was. I think no matter what by next year Geri, Emma, Mel B and Victoria will be retired from music apart from the odd performance or one off duet ect. I think we probably have 1 or 2 album's from Melanie C before she gives up. Then it'll be a long long time before we get any music from any of the girls. They gain NOTHING from releasing music.

Actually, I'm not arguing about chart positions here, I'm talking about how promotion of any kind might not have ANY effect on charts. Half of people don't even use Spotify. Jay knows his charts but promotion is completely another issue. Janet Jackson had several of her album tracks included on many global and local playlists in 2015, yet none of them charted. So, no, the playlist-thing doesn't really make a difference unless the song is something the public want to hear.

And Mel C won't ever give up on her music career, and that's such a silly thing to say. She hasn't had a proper hit, nor made decent money since her 2nd album, yet she ain't complaining. She does her thing, regardless.

WhatTheHell wrote:
Hannes84 wrote:
Jay wrote:Promo isn't an effective way of selling singles any more - a prominent position on an official Spotify playlist is what makes a song into a hit these days. TV & radio promo is proven to be more beneficial for albums these days.

People are sheep at the end of the day - if a song is high up on Hot Hits UK playlist (which happens because a label pays Spotify for that), it'll unquestionably become a hit - no matter what the perceived quality of it is. To that end, either Melanie or Geri could release the best songs of their careers in 2017, and promote it on any UK TV show that has them - and still not reach the Top 200. They could release crap songs and do about as well. That's just the way it is!

I have to disagree. Spotify playlists do not make a difference. TV & Radio promo.. Isn't MelC talking about her "new" album like every week on radio? Where's the success? To be honest, I don't think any of us (including the professionals, who do it for living) have any clue anymore about how to promote a single. You can have a 300 million people audience for your music and still go nowhere. Yet you have a name that carries, and you'll shoot up right away. However, not even than works these days (Gaga, Madonna and so on). I don't really listen to radio these days, nor do I follow the charts. I've got my playlists and I listen to the tracks I've always loved. I occasionally add music, when Spotify suggests something I like, or when my fav artists release new stuff.


Man, your last message contradicts yourself.
You say spotify does not make a difference but TV and Radio does... Then why Anymore hasn't charted at all after all the interviews Mel had? It was her most radio-played song of the last 10 years or so (bar Loving You)!
Nowadays it is clear that No spotify-Youtube plays means no chart.

actually I said nothing what you're claiming lol. u might wanna re-read. I said even with TV & Radio promo there's no guarantee. I also said I don't think anyone REALLY knows how to affect the charts anymore (if the song itself isn't strong enough)
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